#1 it's a shaolin martial art #2 its close courters not long range. un less you think long range is the way to go. But if you come across a real wing chun man that will just be slower and slower the farther you get . #3 do you even know what chi sau is. #4 yes they have full contact sparring and if they don't that school sucks.remember Its not a fancy style but its the one of the most affective. but anyways what style do you respect?
Ninedemonsgod's why do you not have respect for wing chun?
Why do people think that MMA sport fighting is the ultimate in martial arts? I think it's because they don't know where their sport came from. The professional MMA fighters are fine athletes, but they aren't fighting for thier lives in the ring, so a comparison of MMA to street fighting isn't really applicable.
Wing Chun has been tested and proven in the real world in life-or-death combat for about 300 years, so the art has no need to defend its reputation in a boxing ring. Individual practitioners may or may not be proficient in the art, and could perform badly giving the art a bad reputation, but that is about the practitioner, not the style.
If someone speaks badly about a martial art, that's only because they don't really have a clue about it and feel a need to make them feel better about themselves by trashing someone else. A little respect goes a long way.
Reply:silence, b4 I scan you with my mind and explode ur head.
Reply:If it is so effective why hasn't a single wing chun fighter performed even adequately in an MMA event.
I'll tell you why, Because as a general rule either the style just doesn't work or because there is just sooooo many crappy instructors out there. As I am not a "chunner" and don't know a crapload of wc theory and techniques, I can't comment on the style. All I can say is that it hasn't made a name for itself in full-contact MMA type competitions to my knowledge so I would have to chalk it up to lack of proper teaching.
Reply:To combat this on-going theory that if you haven't seen it in the UFC... its a worthless art.... Lets see someone in the UFC able to kick someone in the balls, or strike the throat, or gouge eyes... Most martial arts teach self defense.... not winning by score card. I can go as far as to say that MMA events are more sport than martial art... If one were to truly see a martial arts full potential, there would have to be NO rules, and death acceptable as a possible outcome. The point is that as a martial artist, you should respect other styles. You don't have to like them or even agree with them, but respect them for the amount of time that they have been around. Most Asian martial arts have been around for century's. They don't last that long because of cheap parlor tricks. Bruce lee made a point to combine many arts to take what he felt were the good parts, and left out the parts he felt he wouldn't use as often. The people that I hang around with from different styles all get along. We don't see things so plain as ONE IS BETTER THAN THE OTHER.... if that were the case.. what happens when a TKD student gets taken down by a BJJ student? Or what happens when a BJJ student decides to let a TKD student get a good round kick to his face.... in both cases.... KO!
EDIT: People like Philip is where martial arts gets its bad name... and by the way you totaly missed the point of groin strikes and throat strikes you moron.
EDIT2: LOL Ong Bak as a basis for what martial arts is? HA HA HA... ITS A MOVIE.. with STUNT PEOPLE WHO LET HIM HIT THEM!
Reply:I'm not nine... just some thoughts...
Some schools are just plain bad. Some schools focus more on the forms rather than the sparring. Yes Yip Man was great, could fight and liked to do it. Let me know if more history is needed on Yip Man. I agree it is not big on the fancy. I believe its range is cinch, short, and medium range. I'm not seeing any long range, it lacks grappling skills and ground skills. But no art is perfect and has it all. That is why many folks cross-trained in more than one art despite what movies say. I've only seen a bit of the art first hand so I can't go that in depth on Wing Chun.
As far as why isn't it in MMA, MMA is big but not necessarily everywhere in the world. China and Japan have their own MMA contests and such. I would think if a Wing chun person wanted to do it, they would need to compliment the art with some grappling of some sort.
Thoughts?
Reply:Unfortunately, these guys (and there are several that I myself disagree with) have the wrong attitude of Martial Arts, and therefore act as if Martial Arts is an offensive sport instead of a defensive art.
these guys always remind me of the John Kreese character in the Karate Kid movies, because they always refer to the physical (primarily the Muay Thai, and JuJitsu because of their aggressiveness) side of the discipline rather than focus on the whole of each discipline.
Each discipline was developed centuries ago, and they have proved to be effective in their own right.
but because they may've sparred against an opponent who didn't have a good strategy or only had one type of discipline to fall back on instead of 2 or more disciplines and one against them or have seen an opponent that used that discipline lose; they therefore think the discipline is "crappy', "useless", "flashy", or whatever excuse they wanna come up with for trashing the discipline and boost their own egos and promote their own discipline(s) as being the "best" and show nothing but their own ignorance and disrespect.
a little word to the wise for the people who have this mindset: give respect, and you'll get respect in return.
While these guys hav SOME good points (but not many unfortunately) I often find myself shaking my head in pity when I read their responses and their "haters" attitudes.
Good luck in your training dude, no matter WHAT discipline you study, or choose to study; it's a foundation to build yourself on.
Reply:Who cares?
I think Wing Chun is a crappy chi/religious/theoretical martial art. How does that make you feel?
Second to the kid talking about MMA, It doesn't take years of training, or skill to kick someone in the nuts, grab hair, punch their throat. So don't go saying that you can't compete because your style is all nut kicking throat breaking. I'm sure Chuck Liddell knows where testicals are located and how to kick. MMA is a far better gauge than many of these diehard chi warriors admit.
Quicksilver, stop saying martial arts isn't offensive, and than martial arts is defensive. You are GENERALIZING. Not all martial arts came from china, india, japan. They don't all preach peace and enlightenment. Those are just the most marketable (rakes in the cash and you teach religious BS) You show your COMPLETE AND TOTAL IGNORANCE about MA when you say stuff like that. There are many western martial arts you prolly don't even consider MA because YOU are the narrow minded one.
Reply:Why cannot you email me? I would've answered the same.
OK... well here I goes, I will answer every question then put in my thought.
1. And your point is? Do shaolin martial arts mean anything? It's not a magic that make all school great. EVERY stylescould be a mcdojo, but some style have less than others. I have to endurance with people think I do aebroic kickboxing and that's pretty embarassing! I've seen few fake Muay Thai instructor as well.
2. Are you aware that at close range you're taking risk of end up in clinch, getting throw, or take down? Wing Chu seems to have some interesting theory but that theory could be pretty risky in my view. Muay Thai guys' clich is very hard to break free from that often only way to successfully fight against them is to get closer and fight with elbows and knees. Wrestler wouldn't mind get hit in face few time to take you down. Sambo and Judo would grab you and throw you. So I don't see how Wing Chun could be that useful in close range compare to other styles because many styles would do something beside punches. So the option found in Wing Chun is very limited in my eyes. To go up to next level they will need to evolve. Start bring in students from other gym such as boxing, Muay Thai, or a wrestler and learn how to counter their technqiues. That will be a very good experience for whole gym and everyone will learn something new.
3. Yes I know what Chi Sau is. It's senstivity training. The main problem with that is if you practice it only against other wing chun people then you will be too use to same thing that you expect everyone to do same. This is pretty risky in my opinion. It's a step above kata but still... It can lead to bad habit especially when you need to be calm and be prepare for anything. What if I fake a punch and you move your hand down quickly? That will leave you open. That's why many fighter train to keep eyes out for a fake punch because they don't want to block it and leave themselve open.
4. If your school have full contact spar then I respect that. It mean your school is being realistic. However like as I say I think it's better if your opponent have more opinion of how to attack so everyone get use to different thing that I mentioned in #2. I don't realy specifically respect ALL of one styles. However I do have more respect for some than others. I usually have more respect for Kyokushin karate, Seido Karate, Eshin Karate and other similar karate, Muay Thai, full contact kickboxing, sambo, Judo, wrestling, Greco Roman, boxing, boxing, San Shou/San Da (yes the kung fu one!), shooto, brazilia Jiu Jitsu, and few others.
For rest of styles, I usually am very suspicous of them unless they describe what their school is like in detail so I know how they train. In your case I would say your school is pretty decent compare to most of school out there and if more Wing Chun school are like that, it would have got lot more respect. So my suggest would be when you open your own gym, try set up a assoicate or something so only wing chun that do full contact can enroll. Also try set up tournament for full contact Wing Chun. That will help public see what a good real Wing Chun school is suppose to be like. So who know? May one day we would see someone using Wing Chun to win a kickboxing tournament or MMA fight? I'm sure it would be a great feeling if you are the one to bring Wing Chun to next level.
Don't worry about whole "it's a peaceful art" bul!****. Watch movie Ong bak and see what I mean. Also don't be afaird to evolve the style, start bring in students from other gym such as boxing, Muay Thai, or wrestling gym so you can learn how to counter them well with Wing Chun or borrow some of their techniques. Also by open a full contatc Wing Chun tournament, you'll be weeding out all fake schools and only good one will remain. That will be a great thing because the public will feel more comfort about taking Wing Chun since they know that Wing Chun are a realistic style that have been tested out.
Hope this answer your questions.
btw, I agree with Philip's respond to quicksilver. If you can't use your style both aggressively and defensive then that style simply SUCK! Also combat sport is extremely important part for evolve and bring martial arts up to next level. Most fighter often are way more humble than most martial artists from black belt factory. Also quicksilver have NEVER met a fighter! He should watch Ong bak to get some clue!
Reply:If your school utilizes full contact sparring, then good (I assume that you mean hard contact sparring). But there are a lot of schools that don't and they are the loudest on the issue, so that makes them the general face of Wing Chun and not practitioners that are realistic. As a response to all those who say sports are not applicable in a real life situation, I will cite Tyson vs. some dude with a knife. Tyson won, so just try telling him boxing doesn't work.
cotton tree
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